Cold Start Engine 'rattle' (1.0)

Faults and Technical chat for the Hyundai Kona
Zoetaylor69
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:52 pm

Re: Cold Start Engine 'rattle' (1.0)

Post by Zoetaylor69 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:49 pm

Update on my Kona
Had a call from Hyundai, I had to go and meet the bloke from Hyundai Technical. Who basically told me he couldn’t hear anything wrong with the car. He said they are exceptionally noisy cars due to being a 3 cylinder unbalanced engine. I’m sure that they don’t advertise that when selling the car.
I agree the noise wasn’t there when he started it up but it wasn’t always when I started it plus it hasn’t been run. He did say they had changed the tensioner belt again and tightened something up.
His solution is basically monitor the problem and record it every time it happens and you are covered by 5 yr guarantee so it will keep being repaired. 🙄 not a solution at all. I’ve got a letter prepared to arrange a meeting with the service director at brindles Hyundai so will send it and see if they will meet to discuss the mis sale, false advertisement, not fit for purpose and everything else.
I’m totally at my wits end with it all. I pick up my car tomorrow and we will see how long it takes for the noise to reappear.


Zoetaylor69
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:52 pm

Re: Cold Start Engine 'rattle' (1.0)

Post by Zoetaylor69 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:01 pm

Update - Got the car back today
Service department told me to monitor and basically the only way they will look at it again is when it actually breaks.

Collected car 1:30pm - no metal clanging sound but a very bizarre gurgling noise on start up.

3:30 - started car again - metal clanging noise back and another strange gurgling sound.

4:45 started car again (recorded this time) metal clanging again and gurgling noise.

So the noise is back again So now I am a complete loss as to what to do. The service department say don’t come back unless it breaks so am I just meant to put up with it and basically ‘go away’. As that is how I feel they are treating me.

Another option is taking it to another garage for an independent opinion and see if they can find the fault but this well then be an added cost to me.

I’m so angry and frustrated and wish I could just sell the car and take the loss.


davrob36
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:37 pm
Location: Colchester,Essex UK

Re: Cold Start Engine 'rattle' (1.0)

Post by davrob36 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:37 pm

This is just a thought on my behave is, is it worth approaching your local Kia dealer and see if they could listen to it as they have the Stonic with the same engine.
Mind you some Stonic owners are reporting the same problem so you may have a interesting conversation.
Just a thought - it appears that I'm one of the lucky ones with no problem and my dealer likewise.


Bernie_P
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:35 pm

Re: Cold Start Engine 'rattle' (1.0)

Post by Bernie_P » Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:08 pm

Hi, fellow suffers,
After having your engines stripped down and tensioner components replaced, without resolution to the clatter noise, it's starting to make me think that the timing chain tensioner is a symptom and not the cause, instead, I feel its more likely that the original problem is an oil drain back one.
The whole thing could be as simple as a defective anti drain back valve (ADBV) in the oil filter, which is releasing the tensioners pressure when the engine is off.
When they carried out the strip down, they would have had to drain the oil, but may have not thought it worth changing the oil filter, hence if it's faulty, the problem remains.

See this forum https://maxima.org/forums/4th-generatio ... artup.html


davrob36
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:37 pm
Location: Colchester,Essex UK

Re: Cold Start Engine 'rattle' (1.0)

Post by davrob36 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:23 pm

Bernie you may have hit the nail on the head after reading the Google extract from Bob the oil filter man plus also there interesting information on You Tube where someone takes apart a Hyundai oil filter and you can see the valve at the base of the filter.
It appears that most of these guys with problems are all about the same age where mine is slightly newer - so it could be just a faulty batch of filters??
Good thinking on your part.


Paulo
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:11 pm

Re: Cold Start Engine 'rattle' (1.0)

Post by Paulo » Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:20 pm

Hi There,

I´m new here, so, hello everyone.
in first of all, sorry for my english because i´m Portuguese.

I Have a Kia Proceed with the same engine and same problem that you have since the 1000km, or since the begining, but i only noticed about 1000Km.
I already taked to the dealer and they make a video and send it to KiA and they say thar is normal.
Of Course i know that is not true because not every car does the same noise.
So i started my reserch and i foud 3 diferent options:
1- The time chain
2- Bad return valve on the oil filter
3- The play on the arm of the wastegate.

The first 2 you already know, but the 3 is very common on the TSI engines of VW. When the car is cold, it shakes a litle bit more and make the arm of the wastegate hit the heat protection, at least in teory. Next week, I will try to remove it and check if the rattle is gone.
But after reading all the posts of you guys, i think that the oil filter and oil could also be a very valid origin for the problem, beacause if it was a design fault, all the engines had the same noises.
Someone already change the oil and filter???

I will continue my research/try and will lt you know the result.

Sorry to interven being a diferent brand but i think the problem is the same and the brands share the problem.

Thanks in advance

Paulo


davrob36
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:37 pm
Location: Colchester,Essex UK

Re: Cold Start Engine 'rattle' (1.0)

Post by davrob36 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:01 pm

Paulo don't say sorry its good to have all these suggestions. It's a pity somebody from Hyundai / Kia Tech does not read this saga and give some suggestions.


davrob36
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:37 pm
Location: Colchester,Essex UK

Re: Cold Start Engine 'rattle' (1.0)

Post by davrob36 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:30 pm

Thinking what Paulo mentioned about the waste gate flap - it could be possible when you think the Hyundai i10 with same engine does not suffer with these noises but the only difference is the "turbo". Could it be ???


mutley
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:53 pm

Re: Cold Start Engine 'rattle' (1.0)

Post by mutley » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:10 pm

davrob thanks for your reply I might of phrased it wrong when I said “there is no spring of significance “ I was referring to the mighty spring you referred too or am I interpreting it wrong . A light spring yes but I can’t see that a heavy spring is inside the tensioner because surely that would defeat the object of a hydraulic tensioner? and that would mean there would be a constant pressure on the chain and hence no rattle on start up ?
I see VW / Audi have done a recall on the chain tensioner where a ratchet inside the tensioner fails this is apparently why the piston inside the tensioner retracts causing catastrophic engine damage. This is an extract. Bernie mentioned a ratchet.

What does a timing chain tensioner do? For your engine to work properly it is critical that the moving parts within the engine work in perfect time with each other. The component in control of this task is the engine timing chain and the timing chain’s associated components. One of these associated components in charge of keeping a critical tension applied to the timing chain is the timing chain tensioner. The timing chain tensioner is basically a hydraulic ram, when the engine is running oil pressure in the engine is fed to the tensioner and this pressure forces the timing chain tensioner piston against the moving timing chain. By doing so all the slack in the timing chain is taken out and ensures that the timing chain will not jump over spocket teeth and put the engine out of time.
What goes wrong? When the engine is started and oil pressure is fed to the timing chain tensioner the piston is pushed hard against the moving timing chain, but when the engine is switch off there will be no pressure to hold the timing chain tensioner in place. To combat this there is a mechanical ratchet that forms part of the tensioner unit and this ratchet hold the tensioner against the timing chain when oil pressure is no longer present (the engine has been turned off) This ratchet assembly is the fail point in the early design tensioner. When the ratchet fails the piston applying tension to the timing chain can fall back away from the timing chain and suddenly there is a huge amount of loose timing chain present.

This is a thought , this could be affecting ours. I know tensioner have been replaced but are they revised or replaced with still faulty tensioners ? By what zoetaylor says Hyundai technical have more or less washed their hands of it and will only look at it when it eventually damages the engine big time.
With reference to the oil filter seen this before. This is mainly when low quality filters are fitted on the side of the engine block the oil drains back and then on start up you get a big end rattle, oil light stays on longer with also some top end clatter. I think the filter on the Kona is facing upward so wouldn’t the drain back be minimal ? As said before it would be nice to get some input from a Hyundai tech.


davrob36
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:37 pm
Location: Colchester,Essex UK

Re: Cold Start Engine 'rattle' (1.0)

Post by davrob36 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:31 pm

Thanks for your info. Mutley but as I have never heard the noise before but certainly been interested if anything occurred. Plus I have never looked closely at a Kona tensioner I was relating to the Vauxhall one which hasn't or perhaps they do now have a rachet but just spring and assisted on running by oil pressure.
Yes I can't see the oil filter causing the problem as you said the situation of the filter it should never drain off.
So the chapter carries on until we have a engine failure going by Hyundai.
Good luck when yours is looked at.


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